regarding that abusive training post you reblogged, do you feel that the jedi’s training methods were abusive? physically and/or mentally?

redrikki:

Wow, that is a tough question. I haven’t read any of the old Legends stuff about growing up Jedi, so I’m just going to comment on what we see in the films and Clone Wars cartoon. 

It’s important to note that no one, with the possible exception of Anakin, actually consented to join the Jedi. They were all drafted as infants or toddlers. From a very young age they are groomed for combat. @howtofightwrite has some excellent posts about children raised for combat. The goal of the Jedi Order’s childrearing and training practices is to create effective fighters with an intense loyalty to the Order and the cause they serve. They accomplish this through isolation, indoctrination, and the rigorous suppression of dissent. Children are pushed to do and be their best, but I seriously doubt that the Order is going to do anything which endangers their health before the age of ten or so. They aren’t going to beat them. They aren’t going to train them to the point of injury. Force-sensitive kids are a rare and precious commodity and the Order isn’t going to risk losing them to injury or the Darth Side. 

By the time the kids are ten or so, then they’re willing to endanger them. We see this during the Gathering arc. The kids are sent into a cave where they undergo a test of character involving hallucinations, extreme temperatures, and potentially life-threatening situations. Ezra and Luke undergo something similar during the course of their training. Everyone consents to participating, but none of the people involve fully understand what they’re about to endure. In the case of Ezra, we see real proof that people have died during the test. We don’t know if anyone has died during the Gathering, but it is presented to the children as a real possibility at the outset. Tests for children that conceivably involve dying if you fail is pretty fucked up.

Tests and object lessons remain a pretty consistent thing with the Jedi from this point on. Initiates have to pass the Padawan Trials. Padawans have to pass the Knight Trials. Knights are assigned padawans to test their ability to handle losing said padawan. Teenagers are repeatedly placed in deadly situations with minimal support to see if they survive. A group of children are kidnapped and left to fend for themselves as Council members declare they’ll be fine and find their own way back if they’re worthy students.  

This is all deeply fucked up and symptomatic of the way the Order views it’s members.  Jedi, regardless of age, are disposable resources meant to serve a greater purpose. This is fundamentally dehumanizing and results in the various emotionally stunted messes we see on screen.

@howtofightwrite writes in another post about abusive trainers that the key to understanding abusive training scenarios is all about control. Abusive trainers want their trainees to serve them, their needs, and their interests, regardless of what is good for the trainee. I’m just going to quote a few paragraphs from the original post rather than rephrase because it’s just too perfect:

A character with an abusive instructor may become a great fighter, but they will also be emotionally crippled. Like a bully, they will feel the need to exert control over their environment, create their own little kingdoms, and lash out at those who threaten their authority. 

A character who cannot embrace their teacher’s outlook will be shattered, chased by self-doubt, and end up too mentally insecure to succeed at warfare. Their confidence is crushed, and whatever they learn from their teacher they don’t have the fortitude to use.

That’s the consequence of an abusive instructor.

You embrace them and become like them.

Or…

You reject them, and they break you.

This is not physical, they break their student emotionally through neglect, through failure, by critically hampering their ability to succeed, by undercutting them, or changing the goalposts on them.

This is literally what happens to Anakin. We see this happen to him over the course of the Clone Wars series and films. We also see them do this to Ahsoka, especially during her trials. We also see a bit of this with Caleb in the Kanan comics when he gets yelled at for asking questions. 

And so, to sum up, yes, the Jedi Order was an abusive training environment. They didn’t beat the initiates, but they did recklessly endanger their lives and emotional wellbeing as part of various tests. Their end goal was not to create functional, successful adults, but rather soldiers blindly fighting for their cause and they psychologically broke anyone who didn’t immediately fall in line.