This is one
of the things that were never explored in length by the EU because the EU got
cancelled before the show was even finished.
Before
Disney bought Star Wars LF was working on The Essential Guide to Warfare book, on that book we would learn that Cut’s
daughter wrote a book called My Stepfather’s Face: A Soldier’s Secret about her
father and her childhood. But when Disney’s bought Star Wars that tidbit was
removed from the book before being published so now it’s technically Legends.
Now and again clones – mostly ARCs and commandos — retained
sufficient independence to make up their own minds about the conduct of the
war, and either refused orders or fled the war altogether. Some clones refused
to accept Order 66 — the 22nd Air Combat Wing’s Ion Team, for example, helped
Roan Shryne and two other Jedi escape Republic forces on Murkhana. Kal
Skirata’s Null Squad deserted en masse, as did other clone troopers he had
trained. And some clone troopers survived encounters in
which they were listed as MIA or KIA, taking the advantage to slip away to a
quieter life. The story of one such clone, Cut Lawquane, emerged in the time of
New Republic with the publication of Shaeeah Lawquane’s memoir of a Felucian
childhood, entitled My Stepfather’s Face: A Soldier’s Secret. [Star Wars: The Essential Guide to Warfare Author’s Cut]
This is
implies Cut was fine during Order 66 and that he was not overcome by a desire
to killed Jedi (btw, that was not how the chip worked). Order 66 was an order
the clones were forced to obey but that doesn’t mean they got thirst for Jedi
blood. They were ordered to kill and so they did. Cut, no longer part of the
army, would not have received such order. This is confirmed by Disney’s canon:
“Both of
you, picking sides. Side you should pick is your family. No matter what. Above
all else. But here you sit, bickering like a bunch of starkles over which one
gets the first and last worm. You know
the Lawquanes? Old man Cut, he fought in the Clone Wars. He saw the truth of things: No side in war
is the right side. He did the right thing. Settled down. Had a family. Never
got drawn back into the muck. But you two. Not good enough for—” [Chuck
Wendig. Aftermath: Star Wars]
(Related to thispost by padawanlost. I’m putting it separately because the best points were already made in that thread and I’m just compiling things here and I’m shy.)
A while ago I read some people’s analysis on how Anakin (and Ahsoka and Obi-Wan too, apparently) did not care about clone lives based on The Clone Wars series.
Okay, fine, people can have opinions. Let’s look at the details.
They accuse that Anakin:
risked clone lives during Malevolence run just to hog all glory.
risked clone lives just to get R2 back. (okay this one got me)
(with Ahsoka) threw Rex off the wall in Second Geonosis.
(with Obi-Wan) did not save that one clone who lost his grip and fell from the cliff in Citadel arc.
did not check if Echo was really dead or show any sad emotions for it.
(with Obi-Wan) never gives dead clones their due while taking time for an impromptu funeral for Jedi Master Piel in Citadel arc. (because clearly they are the only ones with that problem)
did not do for Fives in Order 66 arc as much as he did for Ahsoka.
All right, fine. I could refute at least half of the above list, but that might get subjective real fast.
Still, probably don’t forget the times Anakin:
wanted to help Rex in Teth battle on the risk of failing the mission.
staged a rescue mission after being told not to in Malevolence arc because “lives are at stake.”
helped a weakened Wolffe (I think that was Wolffe?) get out of the broken pod (and get the med droid to tend to them)
changed courses in Malevolence run when someone gave a better option.
from the same episode, “I also can’t take the lives I lost lightly.”
got himself blown up after getting everyone (including clones who are not under his command) to safety in Jedi Crash.
charged ahead solo to take out the defoliator on his own despite above injuries.
tells Rex to stand down and not risk unnecessary conflict with the Talz in Tresspass.
paused mid battle to save Denal from falling to his death. (and then letting him down gently while running after Ahsoka)
was visibly relieved to see Red Eye (apparently) okay in Voyage of Temptation.
yelled “Get behind me!” when facing spider assassin droids because he’s better equipped than the clones to handle them.
immediately went to help Rex and Cody from above mentioned spider droids.
(with Ahsoka) is shown trying to help injured clones after a bomb unexpectedly blew up nearby on Zygerria arc.
on multiple occasions is shown to be the last one boarding the evacuating gunship.
showed visible sadness when Commander Ponds was executed by Boba’s gang.
gets comatose Tup out of the Separatist clutches in Order 66 arc.
The Bad Batch arc is about him getting Echo back.
Bonus from the movie: Anakin wanted to help the clone pilots during the battle over Coruscant in RotS, even though the mission is to rescue the Chancellor.
So I don’t know, the evidence *clearly* stacks against him. /sarcasm
And sure Jedi such as Mace Windu and Yoda *clearly* cared more than our main trio because of That One Time Yoda gave clones pep talk and That One Time Mace helped his men during his limelight episode. /double sarcasm
TCW isn’t entirely consistent with their characterizations, especially if it involves Rule of Funny or Rule of Cool. (Geonosis one is definitely a case of Rule of Funny in my opinion) In fact, all visual media does that now and then. Still, there is an overall trend on how clones are treated by Jedi.
For the record, I do not think Mace and Yoda ever intentionally ‘not care’ or abuse clones. I do not believe any Jedi (aside from those like Krell) would do that. But the problem is that we see more (arguably) conflicting evidence for Anakin, Ahsoka, Obi-Wan and not for Mace and Yoda, because we see Anakin, Ahsoka, Obi-Wan more. There isn’t enough *statistical power* to make a good comparison between two groups.
Also for those who accuse of Ahsoka not hesitating to kill clones who were brainwashed by Geonosis bug to kill her and Barriss… Yoda didn’t bat an eye before beheading clones that crept up to him during Order 66 either but no one talks about that for some reason.
Oh, yeah,
everything is Anakin’s fault lol I’ve seen people blame him for the formation
of the GAR, accusing him of beating Padmé for years and all sort of crimes. But, as you said,
there are no details… because no
there are no
facts supporting these claims. It’s usually just people who don’t like Anakin
grasping at straws.
Anakin wasn’t
perfect, he definitely had a hand on the enslavement of clones but to say he
didn’t care at all , that he was intentionally cruel to them or that he was worse
than the rest of the Jedi Order is ridiculous. There’s no evidence supporting
such claims. What we do have is a ton of comic, book, movie and shows moments
where Anakin is seen clearly worrying about his men and saddened by his
inability to do more for them. we also have only a handful of moments where any
other Jedi shows deep concern over the death of clones. If Anakin is so
terrible, where is the evidence? Why is there no book quote, movie/tv scene or
comic panel where Anakin wittingly mistreats clones?
There’s a
list of evidence that shows Anakin’s concern for his men and his men’s loyalty and respect
for Anakin’s command. There’s no evidence supporting the opposite, only interpretations.
And interpretations can be screwy because we are all biased. That’s why I like to
show where I got the information I’m discussing. I want people to know what
when I say “Anakin cared for the clones”, I’m not making stuff up to defend a
character I love. I’m merely stating a fact.
[Anakin]
looked at Ahsoka. “Fine. You can go. But I want to be kept informed of
Torrent Company’s status. Don’t make me chase you for updates, is that clear?”
She managed to smile. “Yes, Master. Thank you.” “And Ahsoka …” He felt his
heart thud. “Tell Rex—tell all of them—that anything less than a full recovery
is unacceptable. Tell Rex I—” He had to stop. Obi-Wan was in earshot, and they
were not supposed to care so much. [Karen Miller’s Star Wars: Clone
Wars Gambit: Stealth]
I’m not sure. Some of them,
the ones who knew about the chips and survived Order 66 probably made the connection.
The whole chip story is complicated because that arc belongs to season 6 of TCW
and when season 6 was aired SW already belonged to Disney and Disney had put a
halt on the EU stuff. That arc and its consequences was never explored in
George’s SW.
People complain
that we never saw Anakin’s reaction to Fives death or that chips were “forgotten”
but they forget the reason we never got any follow up on that arc is because
Disney pulled the plug and we never got any EU stuff to fill the gaps. The only thing that is kind of set around the Order 66 time is the Ahsoka book (Disney’s canon). She seems to
understand the chip is the reason the clones turned on her but I’m assuming Rex
told her about Fives because she was not there for any of that arc.
“[Ahsoka] thought about all the clone troopers
she had ever served with. They had been so quick to accept her, even when she
first became Anakin’s Padawan. Sure, part of that was their genetic code, but
that only went so far. They respected her. They listened to her. They taught
her everything they knew. And when she made mistakes, when she got some of them
killed, they forgave her, and they stood beside her again when it was time to
return to battle. The Jedi were gone, but what happened to the clones was
almost worse. Their identities, their
free will, removed with a simple voice command and the activation of a chip. If
she hadn’t seen it for herself, she wouldn’t have believed it was possible.” Ahsoka,
E.K Johnston
to keep it simple:
Disney’s canon: some of them did.
George’s canon: we don’t know for sure who knew what.
Yeah, Anakin wouldn’t report such relationship. The Jedi Trial is one more example that Skywalker is not willing to tell anyone about other people secret affair:
No, he
wouldn’t tell. Anakin, above all else, was loyal. He’d consider such action a terrible
betrayal.
“For Anakin,” Obi-Wan said at length, “there is nothing more important than
friendship. He is the most loyal man I have ever met—loyal beyond reason, in
fact. Despite all I have tried to teach him about the sacrifices that are
the heart of being a Jedi, he—he will never, I think, truly understand.” [Matthew
Stover. Revenge of the Sith]
After a moment, Halcyon continued. “You know the reason we Jedi aren’t supposed to have any emotional connections with other people, don’t you?” Anakin didn’t answer: the question was rhetorical. “It’s because emotions cloud a Jedi’s judgment, make it difficult for him to see his duty, to do the hard and difficult things he’s sworn to do. Well, I failed the test.”
Nejaa Halcyon told Anakin about his wife and son.
At first Anakin couldn’t speak, could only gape mutely at the man who had become a mentor. Halcyon chuckled and tapped Anakin under the jaw.
“Dropped so fast I thought you’d dislocated it,” he said. He sighed. “So there it is. You’re the only one who knows. Are you going to tell the Jedi Council when we get back?”
Anakin didn’t know what to say. “No,” he croaked, trying to control his voice. “I suspect Yoda already knows, or guesses. Not much gets by him. ” Then guilt and honesty overcame him. “Besides, if I report you, you can retaliate by reporting me,” he said all in a rush. And then he told Halcyon about his marriage to Padme.
It was Nejaa Halcyon’s turn to gape. When he could talk again he said, “Married? You?” He shook his head wonderingly. “So you married her when you went to Naboo together, didn’t you?” he said slowly. “And even Obi-Wan doesn’t know?”
Anakin reddened as the shame of his lie rose up from its hiding place deep in his heart. “It has been… difficult,” he admitted. “Obi-Wan is my Master-and my friend. I hate lying to him!”
Halcyon just nodded. “I know, I know. We have gone against everything we have ever been taught-against what it means to be a Jedi…” His voice trailed off.
“But it doesn’t feel wrong!” Anakin burst out. “I mean-the dishonesty, yes, but not the love! Not the caring! I feel no less a Jedi for my love of Padme!”
Anakin is loyal and honest man by nature. Reporting anyone for loving is out of question, because A) he broke the rule himself, B) don’t believe love is wrong nor C) that love makes someone less Jedi. Add to that, clone troopers are like one of few people Anakin really care for, so reporting – thus putting a trooper in danger – is not likely thing.
I think Anakin might want to make sure the clone trooper in question,
, especially of low rank, give consent to such affair since all Jedi outrank clones. The rank of general (or even commander, in case of padawans) is a big thing and Jedi may even
unconsciously abuse the power of their rank. Anakin may want to check the matter just to make sure the clone trooper is not forced into anything. Yeah. I think in such scenerio, Skywalker would be more worry about clone trooper’s well being than Jedi feeling on the matter. Beside that, what people do in their own free time is not his busines.
Anakin and
Padmé first time was never described. I think the closest we got from a description of
this:
“In the
end, Anakin knew, the only thing that had saved him was Padmé, and the
single perfect day they spent together after their secret wedding. Her love.
Her patience. Her unquestioning acceptanceof everything the Jedi demanded
that he deny. [Karen Miller’s The Clone Wars: Wild Space]”
Btw, i
said I *think* they first time was awkward. It’s just my opinion 🙂
But Lucas revealed that despite their monastic regime,
Jedi were permitted to have sex.“Jedi
Knights aren’t celibate – the thing that is forbidden is attachments – and
possessive relationships.”
This quote is from a interview George gave to BBC News
in 2002. Here is
the link if you want to read the whole think.
As for
the childbearing part, that’s why I strongly believe they received sexual
education. The Jedi Order allowed sex but they totally against force dynasties.
They did not allowed force-sensitives to create families powerful in the Force
(this is one of the reason why some many of us believe the Skywalkers would’ve been
considered a problem if Anakin hadn’t fallen).
If sex was
allowed but babies were not, one would assume they taught them some preventive
measures.
If they do allow sex, what do you think would happen if a Jedi did wind up pregnant? With Satele Shan’s son, they separated child from mother, but that’s the Old Republic Jedi, not the post-ruusan Jedi.
We have more confirmation that the jedi Council didn’t like
force-sensitives to have families so if we are talking about two jedi having a
babies thing would get complicated. I don’t remember ever reading about such
case during the PT years so it’s hard to tell for sure how thing would work
out.
No, he
wouldn’t tell. Anakin, above all else, was loyal. He’d consider such action a terrible
betrayal.
“For Anakin,” Obi-Wan said at length, “there is nothing more important than
friendship. He is the most loyal man I have ever met—loyal beyond reason, in
fact. Despite all I have tried to teach him about the sacrifices that are
the heart of being a Jedi, he—he will never, I think, truly understand.” [Matthew
Stover. Revenge of the Sith]
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