I think it
depends on what you mean by fandom. The movies never made it overly explicit
(in-your-face slavery) so I think the “casual fans” ever gave it much thought. Figuring
the overall vibe of the fandom on this topic is hard because the fandom is so
fractured. I believe most fans who are interested in the EU know the clone army
is a slave army. The EU makes it pretty clear. The real problem is the people
who know but choose to ignore it or make excuses. I’ve seen fans argue that
real victims of the creation of the clone army were the Jedi. And they were not
talking about Order 66, they were arguing that the people who suffered the most
from the Kaminoans work were the Jedi. That the Jedi had no choice but to accept
a slave army and that’s makes them honorable victims. Those arguments offend me
far more than a fan who never realized they were a slave army because they
never looked into it.
Speaking of
offensive arguments, the writers absolutely realized the clones were slaves but
sucked at talking about it. It feels like they wanted to show they were slaves
at the same time they wanted to show the Jedi as benevolent and Anakin as
unreasonable. But the thing is, there’s no such a thing a good slave owner. The
same way there’s nothing unreasonable about wanting to abolish slavery.
By not
fully embracing the issue and exploring it in a satisfactory away they created
this gray area where slavery sort of happens and it’s kind of bad. An area where
everyone is somehow justified in not doing more. And when the writers don’t know
how to approach the subject, it’s not surprising the fandom doesn’t either. It’s
even less surprising that some take this slip-up as moral ambiguity and use it
against the slaves to make their heroes look better (and send rape threats to
the writers that do want to talk about it).
It’s interesting to me just how persistent the myth of the ‘good’ slave owner is, especially in the United States. I guess when a not insignificant portion of the viewer’s (and writer’s) ancestors owned people, the idea that it was possible to both be a person-owner and a good person has to exist so people can look back at their ancestors without being overwhelmed by the shame.
In a way though, #notallslaveowners is a lot like #notallmen. Even if they weren’t beating or starving their slaves, those owners were still a) exploiting the labor of enslaved people, b) using the implied threat of force to compel said labor. Enslaved people sure knew that they could be beaten, tortured, starved, separated from their loved ones at any time even if their ‘good’ master had never done so simply because that’s what slave owners do.
Basically, the Jedi do not deserve a cookie for treating the clones with some semblance of humanity. Yoda telling a clone that he sees him as a unique being whose life has value means exactly dick when he would throw literally anyone under the bus for the Greater Good with or without their consent. Shaak Ti speaking kindly to the clones means nothing when she also refers to them as Republic property and makes potentially fatal medical decisions for them without their consent. Basically, the Jedi don’t have to be Pong Krell to be bad. All they have to do is allow Pong Krell to stay in the field despite ridiculous casualties because, hey, at least he wins. And that’s not even going into the part where the clones all have mind control chips THAT THEY KNOW ABOUT and are cool with.
And the Jedi are only “kind” to the Clones because Kamino already took care of ensuring their compliance.
If their army hadn’t come to them already brainwashed from birth, if desertion was something that happened more than once in a blue moon, if it didn’t take DEAFON 7 for them to *think* about disobeying orders in the field – Hell, stakes don’t even need to be that high, if the Clones couldn’t be trusted to hold to military discipline all by their lonesome – would they be so kind?
If the choice was to be not so nice or loose their army, what would they pick?
As it is in The Clone Wars cartoon, they’re like the fun uncle who can swan in and be all chummy and permissive with the kids because the parents are the ones actually doing the job of teaching them the rules and enforcing them*.
*Only in this case, the parents are abusive slavers robbing them of their agency and personhood before they can develop it, so that they can conveniently be used as canon fodder by the fun uncle.
So I always have this headcanon that after Boba works with Aurra Sing, he does a lot to help the clone cadets on Kamino.
He has a lot of guilt for aiding her in killing a lot of the clones. For a while he tried to rationalize it, the whole “I’m not like you!”, and further distancing himself from them was just a façade to hide how he actually felt. Telling himself that the clones weren’t Jango, and that he was better than them made him feel better for a while. Yet later, as he spent some time in prison, he had some time to think.
The clone guards weren’t exactly mean to him, but they were distant and he obviously knew why. They knew he was Boba Fett—the one who wasn’t like them, though he looked like them. The one who killed their brothers like it was nothing. When he looked into their eyes , he didn’t see Jango or even clones. He saw men who were rightfully hurt by him, men who had nothing but each other and he had so ruthlessly aided in killing their brothers.
Boba also had to accept that Jango was awful to the clones. He could never hate his father, but he understands why some of the clones might. When Jango was playing with Boba, reading to him and being a good father to him, he was mistreating clones, training them near to death and treating them like they were objects. He heard some of the clones speaking ill about Jango countless times when he was in prison and now, he knows their hatred is justified.
When Boba breaks out of prison, and after his failed mission with Ventress—he looks back toward Kamino. It’s easy for him to sneak on all over again, even if he is a bit older and he starts to mingle with the cadets. Convincing them to want to desert is pretty easy. The little ones automatically latch on to his idea of a new life and big adventure—so Boba gives that to them. He takes five little cadets to start with and almost immediately latches on to them. It’s now when being a renown bounty hunter helps because he has some money to care for them. And when Boba bonds with these little cadets, he really does and it hurts. It hurts to know that Jango saw countless cadets and thought nothing of them whereas Boba wanted to take them all with him.
When he isn’t taking care of his baby cadets, he is doing what he can to help other clones desert. He feels that it’s something he has to do, even if it isn’t really his “problem” (though he’d argue that). And in all honesty, he enjoys what he does.
So I always have this headcanon that after Boba works with Aurra Sing, he does a lot to help the clone cadets on Kamino.
He has a lot of guilt for aiding her in killing a lot of the clones. For a while he tried to rationalize it, the whole “I’m not like you!”, and further distancing himself from them was just a façade to hide how he actually felt. Telling himself that the clones weren’t Jango, and that he was better than them made him feel better for a while. Yet later, as he spent some time in prison, he had some time to think.
The clone guards weren’t exactly mean to him, but they were distant and he obviously knew why. They knew he was Boba Fett—the one who wasn’t like them, though he looked like them. The one who killed their brothers like it was nothing. When he looked into their eyes , he didn’t see Jango or even clones. He saw men who were rightfully hurt by him, men who had nothing but each other and he had so ruthlessly aided in killing their brothers.
Boba also had to accept that Jango was awful to the clones. He could never hate his father, but he understands why some of the clones might. When Jango was playing with Boba, reading to him and being a good father to him, he was mistreating clones, training them near to death and treating them like they were objects. He heard some of the clones speaking ill about Jango countless times when he was in prison and now, he knows their hatred is justified.
When Boba breaks out of prison, and after his failed mission with Ventress—he looks back toward Kamino. It’s easy for him to sneak on all over again, even if he is a bit older and he starts to mingle with the cadets. Convincing them to want to desert is pretty easy. The little ones automatically latch on to his idea of a new life and big adventure—so Boba gives that to them. He takes five little cadets to start with and almost immediately latches on to them. It’s now when being a renown bounty hunter helps because he has some money to care for them. And when Boba bonds with these little cadets, he really does and it hurts. It hurts to know that Jango saw countless cadets and thought nothing of them whereas Boba wanted to take them all with him.
When he isn’t taking care of his baby cadets, he is doing what he can to help other clones desert. He feels that it’s something he has to do, even if it isn’t really his “problem” (though he’d argue that). And in all honesty, he enjoys what he does.
I wouldn’t
say often. ARC troopers were definitely capable of carrying out solo missions but
such missions are not a common part of their assignments. The thing is, they
technically never went completely alone because there was always a team behind
them (the way military usually works).
The command
structure of the Grand Army was broken down into ten levels, ranging from
individual squads up to the Commander in Chief, the Supreme Chancellor. The
Order of Battle includes only infantry units, not clones who supported those
units, high-ranking clones in command roles, or the Jedi generals who took
charge of different units. (Total numbers are as of Sifo-Dyas’s initial order):
Squad (9
troopers): The smallest unit in the Grand Army is the squad, led by a clone
sergeant.
Platoon (36
troopers): A platoon consists of four squads, led by a clone lieutenant.
Company
(144 troopers plus support personnel): A comany consists of four platoons,
led by a clone captain.
Battalion
(576 troopers plus support personnel): A battalion consists of four companies,
led by a clone battalion commander.
Regiment
(2,304 troopers plus support personnel): A regiment consists of four
battalions, led by a clone regimental commander and a Jedi commander, often a
Padawan serving a Jedi general.
Brigade
(9,216 troopers plus support personnel): A brigade consists of four regiments,
led by a clone senior commander and a Jedi general. Some brigades were called
“legions.”
Corps
(36,864 troopers plus support personnel): A corps consists of four brigades,
led by a clone marshal commander and a Jedi general.
Sector Army
(147,456 troopers plus support personnel): A Sector Army consists of four
corps, commanded by a highly experienced Jedi general.
Systems
Army (294,912 troopers plus support personnel): A Systems Army consists of two Sector
Armies, commanded by a Jedi general, a role filled at this level by members of
the Jedi High Council.
Grand Army
(3,000,000+ troopers plus support personnel): The Grand Army as originally
constituted consisted of all ten Systems Armies, led by Supreme Chancellor
Palpatine as Commander in Chief. [
The Essential Guide to Warfare: Star Wars by Jason Fry]
The GAR
wasn’t structured in a way that allowed one man operations. The work that required
a true solo mission (like espionage) was usually left to the Jedi and non-clone
operatives.A typical ARC trooper’s mission was what we saw in TCW: team work.
I don’t
think Jango knew about the truth purpose of the chips. I don’t remember ever
reading about it so I could be wrong, but, imo, it doesn’t make much sense for
Dooku to share all his plans with one of his pawns. Jango was picked for his ability
to kill Jedi and he knew his clones would eventually do just that but I’m not
sure he knew about the chips or how it would all work out.
Jango knew
they clones would be used to destroy the Jedi order so I don’t think lies such “we
just want to make them less violent” would be necessary or even believably to
his ears.
I wouldn’t mind watching a show about just clones.
● Clones during battles
● Clones during leave
● Young clones learning to fight
● Young clones learning about other planets
● Young clones forming bonds with their brothers and other squad members
● Clone cadets learning to fly and maneuver ships and tanks and other things
● Clone cadets learning to be medics
Just clones. All I want is a show about clones
Someone brought this back and id like to add more things to it
● Clones training to be ARC troopers (specifically Jesse bc u know from the sw celebration showing he was definitely ARC at that point)
● That one series of episodes that would’ve happened w/ Rex and R2-D2 and the fighting a bunch of pilots and Rex trying to show he knows his stuff and that he’s cooler (he’s cooler we all know)
● An episode with a bunch of clone trooper pilots hanging out
● Weird sibling rivalry between other squads or different age groups of clones, or dif types of clones like medics, pilots, combat engineers, etc
● Commandos. How they’re trained, and what they’re like on the battlefield.
● Different squads of commandos hanging out or something.
okay okay, i have even more to add to this post bc obviously i cant torture myself enough
• clones getting nicknamed/how they got named • clones trying food and drink other than their ration cubes • idk how they choose how they decorate their armor??? like give me a clone sitting down and painting his armor pLEASE • also tattoos and their hair cuts???, pls give me this • apparently a certain hairstyle is used to honor fallen brethren? the one Gree has that’s red and looks like some weird double mohawk? like how do you decide yeah thats the hairstyle we’re using • clone culture. little quirks clones have, or how different each squad is from other squads • speaking of culture, clone cadets and clones on the battlefield learning about different cultures and languages
more bc ive fallen into the clone pit of despair once again
baby clones, like wee toddler ones learning stuff. show me how the kaminoans brought them up. what were they told and how were these babies handled.
“bad” batches of clones
clone medics. or just give me kix being done with everyones shenanigans
a hardcase-centric ep and all his shenanigans
more domino squad stories
cody/rex/wolffe/bly/etc flashback to when they were cadets
clones and their language and slang and how it varies throughout the GAR
More things that have occurred to me:
• clone command training (clones training to be in command like captain/commander)
• coruscant guard shenanigans//a day in the life of a coruscant guard
• clone medics discussing things that “shouldn’t be a thing but clearly are a thing” like “battle-stress” (ptsd), discussing mental health amongst each other and finding ways to help their brothers
• clones giving each other affection/comforting each other/developing signs of affection specific to clones (i.e. bumping helmets together, bumping arm guards)
• clones talking about armor design, drawing/writing/being creative
• talking about life outside the GAR, about life when the war is over. Talking about dreams and hopes and aspirations
• how clones dealt with/faced discrimination (based on the Umbara arc, you know some people thought they were inferior)
• addressing the fact that the clone army was essentially a slave army for the republic
Tbh, I haven’t
seen a lot of that discourse recently so I can’t go on about specifics. But, as
we recently discussed here, Anakin did care about the clones (and I showed the receipts).
No, he wasn’t perfect and he did fail to do anything to help or even recognize
the clone army was a slave army. HOWEVER, unless this discourse also involves “Plo
Koon doesn’t really cares about the clones or their safety”, “Mace Windu
doesn’t really cares about the clones or their safety”, “Obi-wan doesn’t really
cares about the clones or their safety”, “Luminara doesn’t really cares about
the clones or their safety” or every single Jedi who also used the clones and
were even more emotionally detached than Anakin (and Ahsoka) then this
discourse is not really about analyzing the narrative, it’s about expression
theories not supported by the narrative (canon and EU). Because, as I demonstrated
on a previous post, Anakin, despite his MANY mistakes, showed more concerned
for the lives of clones than most Jedi, Senators or civilians.
Wasn’t Anakin
the only Jedi who sacrificed a bunch of politicians to save clones lives? Wasn’t
he the one who encouraged clones to pick names for themselves instead of using
numbers? Wasn’t he the one who felt personally responsible for the death of
every clone under his command? Who was willing to disobey military order to go
back and help his men?
It’s not
darkness. I’m not dark. This isn’t anger— It was okay; they’d always told him
so. He was fighting to save his men, and if he did terrible things out of compassion, out of love, then he wasn’t
turning to the dark side. That was the Jedi way. For my mother. For my men. For Padmé. [The Clone Wars
by Karen Traviss]
Impatience. Concern. Relief. Loneliness.
Weariness. And grief, not yet healed. Such a muddle of emotions. Such a weight
on [Anakin]’s shoulders. Months of brutal battle had left [Ahsoka] drained and
nearly numb, but it was worse for Anakin. He
was a Jedi general with countless lives entrusted to his care, and every life
damaged or lost he counted as a personal failure. For other people he found
forgiveness; for himself there was none. For himself there was only anger
at not meeting his own exacting standards. [Karen Miller’s Star Wars: Clone
Wars Gambit: Stealth]
Under [Anakin]’s careless confidence, she
sensed a hint of that unhealed grief. The loss of greenies Vere and Ince during
the Jan-Fathal mission … the loss of other Torrent Company clones
since then … his pain was like a kiplin-burr, burrowed deep in his
flesh. Anakin had a
bad habit of nursing those wounds, and no matter what she said, tactfully, no
matter what Master Kenobi said without any tact at all, nothing made a
difference. He hurt for them, and always
would. [Karen Miller’s Star Wars: Clone Wars Gambit: Stealth]
[Anakin]
looked at Ahsoka. “Fine. You can go. But
I want to be kept informed of Torrent Company’s status. Don’t make me chase you
for updates, is that clear?” She managed to smile. “Yes, Master. Thank
you.” “And Ahsoka …” He felt his
heart thud. “Tell Rex—tell all of them—that anything less than a full recovery
is unacceptable. Tell Rex I—” He had to stop. Obi-Wan was in earshot, and they
were not supposed to care so much. [Karen Miller’s Star Wars: Clone Wars
Gambit: Stealth]
[Anakin]
hit the cockpit canopy switch, fast. “Obi-Wan’s fine, more or less,” he told
the anxious droid, firing their fighter’s thrusters. “Ahsoka’s pretty banged
up, though. So are Rex and Coric. They’re
on their way to Kaliida Shoals.” R2’s
mournful whistle said everything Anakin couldn’t … or didn’t want to. [Karen Miller’s Star Wars: Clone Wars Gambit: Stealth]
Rex. Coric. Ahsoka. And fourteen dead pilots. Scores
more dead and wounded ground troopers. Why can’t we stop this? Why can’t we catch Grievous?
Dooku’s only one man. How can he defy the entire Jedi Order? Who is his Sith
Master? Why can’t we find him? Day and
night the questions ate at him. They ate at Obi-Wan, too, but somehow his former
Master seemed able to live without knowing the answers. Or else he was just
better at hiding his dismay. His fear. [Karen Miller’s Star Wars: Clone
Wars Gambit: Stealth]
All this
stuff are part of the narrative. it’s not an opinion, an interpretation or a
theory it is a fact. It’s in the movies, tv shows, comics and novels. Look,
Anakin was not a saint who never did anything wrong ever but people are taking
this bias against him too far. He fucked up A LOT and we all know it but that doesn’t mean we can stick every
negative adjective we know on him, especially when these attributes are not supported by
the narrative. Let’s blame Anakin for the stuff that was actually his fault.
Is Anakin
guilty of not recognizing the clone army as a slave army? YES!
Is Anakin
guilty of not caring about the lives of the men he was responsible for, having
malicious intent and jeopardizing their safety on purpose? NO!
Anakin, as
a Jedi, had a unique approach to slavery. I’m aware this is a divisive topic
with opinions ranging from “Anakin was worse than Jabba” to “Anakin did nothing
wrong”. Instead of doing a “opinion piece” I decided it would be more
constructive if we could look at the facts. My personal opinion will still be a part of this but today I’ll try to show more and talk less.
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