padawanlost:

praetor-canis:

padawanlost:

Well, to be
fair, he wasn’t a particularly great Chancellor either so it’s not like he was
going to save the galaxy. I mean, the worst part of his removal was what it
meant for the entire galaxy. On a personal level, what does makes me feel bad
for him was Padmé’s “betrayal”. Can you imagine going out of your way to help a
planet only to have the queen turn on you and demand your removal? Cold!

@padawanlost But it’s not “going out of his way”. The hyper lane taxation was supported with great eagerness by Valorum and Palpatine. The approval of military upgrade was also supported by Valorum as part of the tax deal. Turning a blind eye on first the amoral doings of the TF and then the rise of the Nebula Front was also something Valorum took part in doing. The catastrophic convention that led to the death of every member of the TF directorate save for Nute Gunray and Lott Dod was again approved and attended by Valorum.

Technically, the Naboo blockade was a retaliatory strike against Palpy for secretly supporting Valorum’s bill of taxation. Wasn’t it?

Thus, if you put the whole thing in context with these unfortunate events, is it really “going out of his way” to help Naboo? Valorum should be helping Naboo. No? What do you think?

Of course, Padme probably didn’t know about all the shenanigans concerning her Senator.

The excuse for the
blockade was:

“Viceroy Gunray states
that the blockade has been launched in protest
of the Senate’s decision to tax shipping in the free-trade zones. He
assures that any attempts to break the embargo will meet with deadly force.
Unless the new regulations are rescinded, he is prepared to see everyone on
Naboo starve.” [James Luceno. Darth Plagueis]

 But in the end Naboo
was picked because Palpatine wanted it to be invaded

“To be sure. But I
warned you that this was coming. Supreme Chancellor Valorum has lost all
credibility, and after what occurred at Eriadu, the Senate is determined to
weaken the Trade Federation further. King Veruna may have been able to stall
the Senate, but he has abdicated, and young
Queen Amidala and Naboo’s Senator are leading the call for taxation. With
the Senate preoccupied, the moment is right for you to begin assembling a fleet
of armed freighters to impose a blockade.” “A
blockade? Of what system, Lord Sidious?” “I will inform you in due time.” James
Luceno. Darth Plagueis

The whole “personal vendetta”
thing was just an excuse to probably keep the TF from suspecting anything.

Anyway, what I meant
by “going out of his” was Valorum’s choice to go to the Jedi Council to ask for
help behind the Senate’s back. He was under no obligation to do that but he did
anyway because he was actually interested in helping Padmé and the people of
Naboo. He didn’t have to do any of that but he did anyway and his reward was
hearing Padmé herself call for a vote of no-confidence. I’m not saying Padmé
did to be cruel or anything like that but if you look at it from Valorum’s POV it
looks shady AF, no wonder he was so shook even Anakin noticed.

“I move for a vote of
no confidence in the supreme chancellor.” Voices rose immediately in response,
some in support, some in protest. Senators and spectators alike came to their
feet, loud mutterings quickly building to shouts that echoed through the
cavernous chamber. Valorum stood
speechless at the podium, stunned and disbelieving. He stared at Amidala, his
face etched in sudden shock as the impact of her words registered. Amidala
faced him boldly, waiting. […]He turned now to Valorum, speaking quickly to
him, keeping his voice low and his words hidden behind his hand. Valorum looked at him uncomprehendingly,
eyes distant and lost. […] Shouts rose from the delegates, echoing across
the chamber in waves as Valorum stared
at Senator Palpatine and Queen Amidala, and even from where he stood
watching now at the entry doors to the Naboo box, Anakin Skywalker could discern the look of betrayal registered on the
supreme chancellor’s anguished face. [Terry Brooks. The Phantom Menace]

redrikki:

cienie-isengardu:

redrikki:

cienie-isengardu:

praetor-canis:

padawanlost:

I’ve never
considered this before but it does make sense. I don’t think that’s what the
writers were going for but I believe there’s definitely a connection between
extreme detachment and the devalue of life. This is might be particularly true
for Yoda. I’ll have to think about this.

@redrikki @cienie-isengardu What do you guys think? Any opinions on the matter? Is there a connection between extreme detachment and the devalue of Life?

Well, I think the extreme detachment usually leads to devalue of life, but I’m not so sure if Sith Lords’ callousness and killing frenzy could be seen as
‘exaggerated’ extension of mourn them not, but rejoice in Death belief of Jedi.

Partially, because Sith Lords vary widely from each other and how they behave or
what they believe in

is determinated by many factors, including their species,
upbringing, life experiences and reason(s)
for the transition to the Dark Side. I mean, Darth Vader and Darth Sidious are both powerful Sith Lords, yet their
modus operandi

drastically vary. For example, Vader wants to bring to galaxy order and peace definied by him (regardless what galaxy wants or need), while Palpatine wants to rule everything and everyone – both are willing to kill tons of people to get what they want yet Vader is less likely to kill for his own amusement while Sidious is destroying innocent lifes just for fun. Some Sith Lords simply like to torture and/or kill others and no religious or philosophical feeling is involved in that.

For me, the biggest difference between Jedi and Sith approach to life and death is that, Jedi are taught to respect all living creatures, while Sith are selfish beings who mostly care for their own skin & ambitions, and simply see others (especially non Force-sensitive ones) as below them. At the same time Jedi do not mourn, because mourning means having feelings and attachment to someone, while Sith simply do not care, because they put their passion, striving for personal perfection and power above anyone else well-being. The Sith Lords are powerful, they know that, and such power makes it easy to believe they are more special than anyone else. In a way, they are chosen by Force, so what is the point of caring for the weakling around them?

But we must also remember that Sith Lords approach to life and death in not the same for all Dark Siders. There are those who tried to cheat death (Darth Sidious in Legends find a way to reborn and hoped to be immortal) and those who does not have much regard for their own life (Vader had his fair share of suicidal moments, like the Legends fight between him and resurrected(?) Darth Maul, when he literally stabbed himself with his own lightsaber to kill Maul). Like I said, Sith Lords vary from each other and because of that there is plenty reasons why they are so detachment – some couldn’t care any less for other people, some just like torturing and killing, some kill when it’s either pragmatic or unnecessary thing to do. Some may even believe that life means nothing since
death is an inevitable fate… though Sith Lords have an awful tendence to troubling galaxy even after their own death.

To be fair,
I can see Yoda as someone who get to that extreme point of thinking no mourn, rejoice in all deaths because (religious) faith is often used as a copy mechanism to deal with personal loss. And since Yoda lived for ages, he lost many friends and students. Anakin/Vader to some degree may be using that too since his connection to Force / Dark Side always had some religious accents – and I guess, he lost too much too soon and at this point of life may be simply too tired to care – but majority of Sith Lords simply were too focused at their own goals & survival to bother look beyond their own selfishness.

I agree with a lot of what @cienie-isengardu said. Yoda’s philosophy (which he clearly fails at following) is entirely based on his own trauma as a long-lived being in a short-lived world. He’s the guy who can’t help adopting cute puppies, but has tried to tell himself he doesn’t care when they inevitably die. This does not seem to be a philosophy shared by all Jedi. After all, Luminara explicitly says she would mourn Barriss if she died and the Jedi as a whole do have mourning rituals. That said, the Jedi do have a philosophy and practice of not letting their emotional attachments get in the way of THE GREATER GOOD. They respect all life, but are okay with sacrificing a few eggs to make some morally righteous, or at least politically expedient, omelets.

The Sith, regardless of their individual motivations, are also break eggs to make omelets types of guys. The differences is who and what those omelets are for. Jedi omelets are always for THE GREATER GOOD, while Sith omelets are for the evil loz, their own ambition, to save their loved ones above all, etc.

Out of all the Sith, Darth Vader is the only guy who attempts to actually follow Yoda’s messed up philosophy. As Anakin, he failed to follow it and it ended up backfiring so horribly that he lost everyone and thing he ever carried about. As a Sith, he spends years trying to not be the guy who cares about that. He also spends years breaking eggs for THE GREATER GOOD while ignoring any moral qualms he has.

Well said 🙂

The irony about Anakin/Vader always crack me up! He was bad Jedi, because he cared too much. He is not the typical Sith either, because he acts more for “the greater good” (definied by him, but still) than for power and fun. But also I’m laughing how Jedi wanted Anakin to became like them, to let go of feelings, to be detached – but the moment when he adapted Yoda’s Jedi philosophy (no mourn for the dead, no feeling guilty too about that) and follows it almost to the letter, he is now a monster. If everyone became a part of Force, so why he shouldn’t sent them there much sooner if by doing so, he is saving galaxy from
chaotic lawlessness?

Shame he never had a chance to
recall Yoda’s own words of wisdom
in his face. That would be one of hellish
catharsis…

#darth vader’s allies#the most untypical sith#most likely#but seriously make your mind jedi#caring is bad#not caring/feeling guilt about killing is bad too reblogging for @cienie-isengardu‘s tags.