Because
there were 12 seats in the Council and only 2 were occupied by women? And because
in the 13 years covered by the Prequels 20 beings sat on the Council and only 5
of them were women.
The rank of
master was the highest ranking one could achieve within the Order. If we
consider some of the most popular Jedi Masters (35 individuals) during the PT
years, 23 of them are male and only 12 are female. Out of these 23, 16 were
part of the Jedi Council or were considered for the position.
Male
Masters on the Jedi Council or considered for the position (18): Dooku, Kit Fisto, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Ki-Adi-Mundi,
Plo Koon, Eeth Koth, Mace Windu, Agen Kolar, Yoda, Saesee Tiin, Sifo-Dyas, Even
Piell, Yarael Poof, Qui-Gon Jinn, Coleman Kcaj, Oppo Rancisis, Coleman Trebor.
78% of the male
Jedi Masters were eventually considered for joining the Jedi Council and only
38% of the women. If you were a female Jedi the odds of you becoming a Master
and ever joining the Council were slim but if you were male, the odds would be
in your favor.
Of course,
this is probably the result of Star Wars being a male centric adventure. The
real blame should go to the writers but that doesn’t change the fact they
constructed a narrative that makes the Jedi Order and the world in general look
extremely biased against women (especially women of color).
Hey! This
question is not weird at all, it’s actually a pretty important one. The fact
the Jedi were initially unequipped do face the droid army was one of the reason
why Palpatine wanted them to fight.
The Jedi
were not a military force. They were not soldiers nor they were trained to be.
They probably educated on military strategies but it would’ve been a purely theoretical
subject. Jedi were trained to be diplomats. And even before the peace times they never had
to operate like an army the way they did during the Clone Wars.
They went
to Geonosis as a “rescue” mission, they were not expecting nor were prepared to
face a droid army. They were outnumber, surrounded and were simply overwhelmed
by the situation. By the time Yoda arrived with the clone army most of them
were dead and the remaining had never led a military unit before which, of
course, led to massive clone casualties.
“You had to be able to cross that threshold and
be ready to do absolutely anything to win. Fierfek, if stupid Jedi hadn’t used you as infantry on Geonosis, every single
one of my commando batch would be alive today.” Triple Zero by Karen
Traviss.
By the time
Geonosis was over and the war was fully on the jedi were too spread out across
the galaxy to work as a unity. There weren’t even enough Jedi to command all
clone unities, let alone enough for the Order to create one made only of Jedi.
Jedi were
precious, they were given command positions despite having zero military
background whilst the clones who were bred for war became canon fodder. This was
not an accident. The Jedi were not qualified to be generals but, as Yoda said,
in their arrogance they jumped into a conflict they did not fully understand
(or bothered trying). Plus, Palatine needed the Jedi in charge and overwhelmed
for his plan to work and they played right into his hands.
Sorry, just my two favorite fandoms of Star Wars and Wuxia merging together every now and then. Somewhere deep in my mind, I see Star Wars as a Wuxia story with laser swords and complicated politics. It’s not something people usually think about. But since you chose to bite by answering this question. Let me explain a bit further.
The Sword Formation is a Taoist thing, and it isn’t for use in the battlefield, it’s more like a cooperative kata that can be used together by 2 or more people. To train together in formation builds trust and teaches the duelists to not just be individual swodsmen, but to work together as a cohesive enteity in the face of stronger adversaries. The monks of Shaolin have something similar with their staffs.
It’s actually a really good tactic, and you know, it kind of suits the harmonic vibe of the Jedi Order. But I suppose the Jedi may not be thinking about facing stronger adversaries since they believe the Sith to be extinct. Here are some examples:
See how the swordsmen would close ranks and each face a different direction so all sides are covered? Or how they would try to come at the enemy from different angles, so he can’t defend everywhere at once?
Dooku would
definitely look down on Ahsoka and never accept her as one of his own. Not only
she was the apprentice of Anakin Skywalker, the unworthy, she was not human. Two
things Dooku could not stand.
A government clean, pure, direct: none of the messy scramble for the favor of ignorant
rabble and subhuman creatures that made up the Republic he so despised. The
government he would serve would be Authority personified. Human
authority. It was no accident that the primary powers of the Confederacy of
Independent Systems were Neimoidian, Skakoan, Quarren and Aqualish, Muun and
Gossam, Sy Myrthian and Koorivar and Geonosian. At war’s end the aliens would be crushed, stripped of all they
possessed, and their systems and their wealth would be given into the hands of
the only beings who could be trusted with them. Human beings. Dooku would serve
an Empire of Man. [Matthew Stover’s Revenge of the Sith]
“But I
must ask, my Master: is Skywalker truly the man we want?” “He is
powerful. Potentially more powerful than even myself.” “Which is precisely,”
Dooku said meditatively, “why it might be best if I were to kill him, instead.”
“Are you so certain that you can?” “Please. Of what use is power unstructured
by discipline? The boy is as much a danger to himself as he is to his enemies. And
that mechanical arm—”Dooku’s lip curled with cultivated distaste. “Revolting.”
“Then perhaps you should have spared his real arm.” “Hmp. A gentleman would
have learned to fight one-handed.” Dooku flicked a dismissive wave. “He’s no
longer even entirely human.With
Grievous, the use of these bio-droid devices is almost forgivable; he was such
a disgusting creature already that his mechanical parts are clearly an
improvement. But a blend of droid and
human? Appalling. The depths of bad taste. How are we to justify associating
with him?” [Matthew Stover’s Revenge of the Sith]
Do you know if Obi-Wan replaced Depa Billaba on the Jedi Council after AotC? Do you think that might have influenced why they chose Obi-Wan?
The
Wookieepedia says Obi-wan replaced Depa Billaba, however, that info is unsourced
so we don’t know for sure it’s true or not.If we use
the info we have and the dates of some of their deaths we can make the
followinf assumptions:
Yeah, that’s
pretty much it. From I understand, the
force has two aspects – Living and Unifying – the cosmic Force is a part of the Unifying
force.
“All that surrounds us is the foundation of
life, the birthplace of what your science calls midi-chlorians, the foundation
of what connects the Living Force and the Cosmic Force.” TCW [06×12]
“Forgive me. I had to be certain. According
to Jedi Offee, the enhanced connection with the Force is potentially so
powerful that, were it to fall into the wrong hands, the results could be
cataclysmic. She felt that it opened a channel to what she referred to as
the Cosmic Force. I assume you know what she was referring to.” Jax
nodded, lost in thought. Most philosophers and students of the Force, including
many members of the erstwhile Council, believed that the Force was above
intellectual concepts of good and evil, and that the terms light side and dark
side constituted nothing more than a merism. Nevertheless, many also felt a
case could be made for viewing the Force, as it was generally understood and
utilized, as a subset of a grander and all-pervasive unifying principle. It
was this “living Force” that was the aspect most Jedi—and most Sith as
well—were familiar with. If one’s connection with it was strong enough, one
could accomplish what seemed to most folk to be miracles: telekinesis, healing
abilities, supernal strength, speed and stamina, even a certain amount of
precognition. But, according to the Old Teachings, this was only one
aspect of a greater whole, much as one planar surface represented only a
fraction of a hypergem’s multidimensional wonders, known variously as the
unifying, cosmic, or greater Force. One connected with the greater Force
only through a lifetime of meditation and sacrifice, but the reward of doing so
was, it was said, a unification with all of space and time, an ability to
manipulate matter and energy on the most elemental levels … even, it was said
by some, the ability to throw off the shackles of the flesh in favor of an
immortal body of energy. [Coruscant Nights II: Street of Shadows by Michael
Reaves]
It seems the Cosmic force has become just another name for Unifying
Force.The cosmic Force was mentioned for the first time in one comic 1977
(before the movie came out) and then only in 2009 in Michael Reaves books. He
is the only EU writer who used that concept until TCW’s season 6 but by then
Disney owned SW and the topic was no longer explored in the EU. Pre-Disney manuals
only mention the Living Force and the Unifying Force. On the other hand, Disney’s
canon only uses the term “Cosmic Force”. Since Disney scrapped the entire EU
but not TCW, they picked the term that was actually mentioned in “their” canon.that explains some of the mess, i guess.
The Jedi Council do know that ‘feigning’ weakness doesn’t mean shoot
yourself in the foot and hope for the best, right? Strategically
speaking, they’ve made every mistake in the book. You don’t send your
armies jumping across the galaxy like it. It’s exhausting for everyone.
You don’t add more stress to someone that’s already tired and exhausted.
Also, the required skill sets for a spy and a frontline general are
vastly different. So WHY?! What kind of brains do these old Jedi folks
have? (2/2)
The Jedi
Council was completely out of their depths and it’s important for the audience
to recognize that because that’s how Palpatine ultimately won. He overwhelmed
them to the point the Council could no longer think rationally. They weren’t
stupid but they were lost. By that point, they had completely lost sight of the
bigger picture. They were so focusing on ending the war they lost track of
everything else.
The first
episode (cat and mouse) takes place in the same year AOTC did so we know it
wasn’t a long time. Unfortunately, the EU usually doesn’t specify months so we
can’t know for sure how many weeks passed between AOTC and TCW. It had not be
at least enough for Anakin to recover from his life-threating injuries, marry
Padmé, train with Obi-wan and get acquainted with the 501st. I remember someone from the production team
confirming tcw takes place weeks after AOTC but I couldn’t find a source so
take that with a grain of salt. The only thing that has been confirmed by the
EU is that both AOTC and TCW take place in the same year.
The issue is that it elects it’s own members. As such, the council elects members that they feel support their position… This enables them to clamp down on opposing perspectives, and can easily stand in the way of alternative perspectives. It is a dangerous way to govern, and promotes ignorance. New ideas are far less likely to get anywhere.
I decided to look a little further into Council Members in TPM and identify lineages therein. I noticed some very interesting things.
Yoda: The Oldest Member of the Council
Ki-Adi Mundi: Yoda’s former Padawan.
Plo Koon: The padawan of Tyvokka. It was suggested that Qui-Gon be given the seat, but Tyvokka lobbied for his own former apprentice instead. After all, Qui-Gon was too grey. Tyvokka, as a Wookie was one of the more longer-lived races and was likely close to Yoda. Indeed, Yoda is known to have “good relations with the Wookies. Koon and Tyvokka may be considered close associates of Yoda, if not of the same lineage.
Mace Windu: The apprentice of T’ra Saa who was a very good friend of Yoda’s. T’ra Saa, like Yoda was of a long-lived species, so this friendship was able to grow quite deep
Depa Billaba: Mace’s own padawan
Yaddle: Her appointment was unanimous except for opposition from Yoda.
Oppo Rancisis: Yaddle’s former padawan. Also closely mentored by Yoda.
Even Piell: Unusual in that he held more of a connection to his homeworld, and that he appears to have no former connection to the Council.
Adi Gallia: A Jedi who was indebted to Even and admired him greatly.
Saesee Tiin: The padawan of Omo Bouri who also once sat on the High Council.
Yarael Poof: Little is known about his background with regard to the Council.
Eeth Koth: Little is known about his background.
At least, four of twelve are in Yoda’s group. Ki-Adi Mundi, Depa Billaba, Mace Windu, and Plo Koon. They are all either of Yoda’s lineage, or apprentices of his good friends. Half or more are the former padawans of previous or current council members. Indeed, the Council in TPM can widely be divided into three camps: Yaddle’s group, Yoda’s group, and those whose background we aren’t certain of. Incidentally, the dynamic is scewed in Yoda’s favour.
It’s really no wonder Obi-Wan, (who is quite ambitious), could confidently say Qui-Gon would be on the Council if he weren’t so maverick: As an apprentice of Dooku, he already has one foot in the door. It’s certainly no wonder Obi-Wan was chosen to be a Council member: He was Dooku’s grand-apprentice, of Yoda’s lineage, reverent of the Council, talented, and he was their ticket to controlling Anakin. It’s no wonder Anakin was offended to not be a Master, (one of many reasons behind his reaction): His former master was on the Council. Anakin had the talent, the accomplishments to his name, and the lineage. At this point, it’s practically an unwritten rule he ought to be on the Council eventually too! There is undeniably a great deal of nepotism going on here, and the Council chooses people who help them maintain their comfortable worldview for better or for worse.
This started with the intent of trying to look objectively at what the Jedi did well, and what they did not do well. Ultimately, it turned into an essay on how they lost their way. It is undeniable the Jedi Order was a well-meant organisation. However, corruption seeps into even the best organisations. It’s just how things go. People are fallible. After taking a survey, and talking to other fans as well, I tried to organise the various ideas I encountered. I would like to thank @redrikki, @thendstartsnow, @klorophile, and @padawanlost for their thoughts on this subject. I would also like to thank @gffa. We seem to have differing viewpoints on the Jedi, at least at first glance, but I enjoyed our talk nonetheless.
It appears unanimous that everyone agrees the Jedi Order was an organisation with good intentions. They stood for peace and justice. They stood for freedom. They stood for compassion. They stood for peace. They stood for enlightenment. They stood for selfless service and sacrifice. They should have stood for love. Not surprisingly, on an individual level, it was made up of many great, if flawed, people–characters we all know and love. I think everyone can agree that what the Jedi Order stood for was desirable. The question comes down to execution. I would like to discuss the Jedi Orders doctrine, their hierarchy, their relationship with the Republic, and their relationship with the general populace to analyse what they did well in achieving that goal, and where they finally failed. (Enjoy @anakinskywalkrx)
I don’t
think so. The problem with indoctrination is that it prevents you from seeing
beyond what you’re told. It alters the way you think and they way react to things.
Any padawan’s reaction to seeing anything dubious about the Jedi Order would
include running to their masters and/or the Jedi Council to tell them. The
Council would either dismiss it or blame it on the “Dark Side” (because they
couldn’t see beyond what they themselves were told when they were first indoctrinated).
The Jedi
are good. Anything more complex than creates a problem. That’s why the Jedi
were so conflicted by the end of the war. They were seeing the truth about the
galaxy for the first time and that unbalanced them. They were told the Jedi
were beloved and respected throughout the galaxy but now people are picketing
the Temple. They were told the Force was always on their side but now there is
so much they can’t no longer see. They were told the Council represents the
will of the force but now the council is constantly making mistakes.
Their worldview
was so skewed they couldn’t conclude there was something wrong with the Order
even when facts hit them in the face. Acknowledging the Jedi Order was doomed
was a traumatic event for anyone indoctrinated by them. The ones who were able
to see it were so broken they left everything behind, turned dark side or just
accepted it.
Dooku, an
older and wiser master, saw exactly what was wrong with Order and how to fix
it. They didn’t listen. When the Clone Wars began, many Jedi left because they
knew it was wrong for them to become generals. They didn’t listen. Qui-Gon Jinn
knew the Order had serious internal problems but he stayed and decided to do
his own thing because he probably knew the Jedi order wasn’t prepared or
willing to change.
The Jedi
were indoctrinated to be hard-or-die members. Living that “lifestyle” was
almost impossible without a traumatic event to force them into action. Many
Jedi only realized something was off after Order 66. Some Jedi failed to see
anything wrong even after they died.
And we are
talking about Jedi Masters and Knights. Experienced, somewhat self-sufficient
Jedi. For a padawan to realize all of this and leave would be nearly
impossible. The padawans we saw during the clone wars were not the usual
padawans. Prior to the war, padawans were forbidden to leave the Temple without
their master’s permission and they couldn’t have friendships with outsiders. Everything
they did and saw was regulated by the Jedi Council. The only reason Ashoka was
so self-reliable was Anakin’s teachings. He taught her about the real world outside
the temple. He taught her a trade. He allowed her to be educated outside the
Temple and foster friendships with non-Jedi. No other padawan had that kind of guidance.
And even so, it took the Council allowing her to be executed without any irrefutable
evidence to wake her up to their flaws.
That’s why I
don’t think a padawan would ever realize, by themselves, what was wrong with
the Jedi order and the tragedy that was coming their way. And even if they did,
I don’t think they would leave or do something drastic about without a major eye-opening
event forcing their hand.
PS: THANK
YOU ❤
In the Kanan comics, there’s some really great commentary on Jedi indoctrination. Caleb is know for continually asking questions about, well, everything. Reactions to his questions are, well, mixed. Here’s the exchange with Jocasta Nu during a class about how padawans are selected.
While some of is instructors and peers seemed to find his continually questioning the Order annoying or possibly threatening, his eventual master Depa Billaba chooses him for that exact reason. Towards the end of the war, she had come to believe that the Order’s decision to become officers had been the wrong one. Here’s his reaction:
It turns out she picked him because she wants to find a way to introduce peaceful dissent into the Order and thought he might be the one to do it. Of course, like, a minute later Order 66 happens, but points for effort.
There’s another panel where Caleb, lost on his own without money or friends, thinks about what he learned at the Temple.
It’s a pretty subtle but damning look at indoctrination within the Order and how questions of any sort were viewed.
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