padawanlost:

If he uses
the dark Jedi he’s definitely a dark Jedi since it’s a broad term for dark
force users.

If he had
some level of Jedi training, uses both light and dark side of the force he’s
also a grey Jedi. Grey jedi usually don’t pick a side. They see the force as a
whole, so to them is not a matter of picking a side (light/dark) but of
embracing the Force as a whole, without distinctions. Grey Jedi don’t “go dark
side”, they use it but they never “go evil” like the Sith.

If you
should call him a Rogue Jedi is up to you. it’s not an official title. There’s
no real specification of that makes a Jedi a Rogue Jedi or how they are
different from grey Jedi. by definition, the title Rogue suggests a Jedi
disconnected from the order so I see it as another way to say ex-Jedi. by the same definition your muse might no be considered a rogue Jedi since he’s still part of the Order. To exemplify
it:

Dark Jedi =
anyone who uses the dark side despite
of any political affiliation, including darth vader, palpatine, ventress, maul,
the nightsisters,  the inquisitors, etc.

Grey Jedi = beings who used both
light and dark but were never corrupted by the dark side, jedi who used both sides and jedi known
for disagreeing with the Jedi Council (Qui-Gon and the father).

Rogue Jedi = Jedi no
longer affiliated with the Jedi Order (Anakin, Dooku, Ferus, Ashoka,
Barriss, etc).

So if your muse is a Jedi who uses both sides of the Force but haven’t been fully corrupted by it then he’s probably a Grey Jedi.

redrikki:

padawanlost:

thewillowbends replied:

padawanlost:

it seems
obvious, right? lol

but the
Jedi idea of balance was a world where only the Jedi existed. They believed
that the prophecy meant Anakin would destroy the sith once and for all. that’s
what happened, but not the way they thought it would.

Is he not to destroy the Sith and bring balance to the Force?              

In their
minds, balance wasn’t the Force as an stable system. It was a galaxy without
the sith. And noticed that they don’t say a world without the dark side, but a
world without the sith. There were other groups of dark side force users but
only the sith, their ultimate enemies and the biggest threat to the jedi order,
needed to be exterminated. Convenient, isn’t it?

If we consider
the Jedi Order as cult-like organizations, that indoctrinate their member to
negate anything that doesn’t support the Order it gets even easier to explain
why they couldn’t see Grey Jedi as viable alternative.

The Jedi
Order was built on the idea that only the LIGHT side was good. and any attempt
to learn about the Force beyond the teachings of the Jedi order was deemed dangerous
and ground for expulsion or death (if they consider you a sith wannabe).

Cult’s doctrine is considered the ‘Truth’ with
a capital T, it covers every eventuality and members are expected to except it completely, even if they don’t
understand it. Eric Hoffer says that the best cult doctrines are
unverifiable and un-evaluable. This means they cannot be proven or disproved,
they have to be accepted on faith [x]

The Jedi
don’t teach about the dark side. They teach that anyone who uses the dark side
is corrupted and irredeemable. It’s a one way street and you should do your best
to stay away from it. but they don’t explain anything about the dark side. Remember,
only members of the Jedi Council have access to the ancient texts and sith holocrons
because it’s “dangerous knowledge” and regular jedi looking for that
information – for whatever reason – are viewed with great suspicions. Even looking
for information on the dark side is bad.

Cults typically reduce things to black and
white. Shades of grey are not allowed.
After all if they have the ultimate Truth, (with a capital T) then every other
group must be wrong, which leads to an ‘us versus them’ mentality. You’re either with the group or you’re an
outsider. (This is often as aspect of the paranoia of cult leaders, too)
[x]

Now that
only a handful of people have access to whole picture, it’s much easier to
control the thinking of rest of the group. But how you make sure that they don’t
learn from other places?

This goes part of the way to explaining how
group members end up distancing themselves from family and friends. They are made to believe that outsiders
(i.e., those not in the group) are a bad influence and are stopping them from
growing, evolving, progressing in some way.
[x]

Until you
are an adult and pass the test to prove you’re a “proper” Jedi you can’t go
anywhere without the authorization of your master. You hardly leave the Temple
without company. The outside world is considered a dangerous place for a
padawan. Trips are regulated and once you return you must report everything you
learn straight to the Council.

The Jedi
order, over time, became so afraid of the unknown, they slowly began creating mechanism
to weed out everything that they deemed dangerous or unnecessary. What started
with the “light side is good” became a cyclical process of indoctrination: an indoctrinated
child becomes an indoctrinated adult who indoctrinates another child. The jedi
are trapped in that mindset. The jedi are right and everyone who disagree with
that is wrong. And who represents the thinking brain of the Jedi Order? The
Jedi Council, the only beings with the means to learn beyond the jedi
propaganda but who don’t because they were personally educated by the one
person resolvable for overseeing almost a millennia of indoctrination.

Very often
the doctrine of cults creates impossibilities and the members are urged to try
and obtain these. The members, of course, don’t see these as impossibilities. Typically the leader claims to have these
abilities and the members are simply trying to be as good as the leader.
For example, working without emotions,
never making judgments, having perfect days whenever you want them, never
breaking the rules, never sinning (notice the black-and-white thinking!).
[x]

They all
though to believe that Yoda is the greatest because he mastered their greatest challenges:
to let go of their attachments, to live in the moment, to “read” the force’s
will, to not be ruled by their emotions, to overcome fear, etc. we all know
they are wrong. Yoda was as fallible was the rest of them. but because they
believe it, the unreasonable goals of the Jedi Code became reasonable and attainable.
So why be a great Jedi, why learn beyond the order when the Order’s way
obviously work? They had a living prove that it worked (Yoda)!

Yoda, not
only kept the Jedi order stagnated, he become an inspirations: if I do well
enough and please my master and the Council one day I’ll be as great as yoda or
his apprentices. We can see that in TPM when Obi-wan is clearly upset Qui-Gon does
not obey them to get a sit on the Council.

It was difficult for unorthodox Jedi—especially
those labeled as Gray Jedi—to join the Council or ascend to any position of
real leadership within the Order. As the High Council chose its own members,
they tended to select more
traditionalist Jedi, such as the group described as the Old Guard. Jinn’s candidacy as a member of the High
Council was rejected first in favor of Plo Koon, and later the Cerean Ki-Adi-Mundi,
both of whom were more in line with the Council’s way of thinking.[x]

The Jedi Order was not interested in changing. Accepting
Grey Jeid as a good thing and welcoming a new way of thinking went against
everything the PT-era Jedi Order stood for.

Their way was the only way.

There’s nothing to suggest the dark side of the
Force is something a person SHOULD use, though.  Nearly every instance
of somebody using it leads to further corruption or causes serious
damage.                    

The problem is: it was the Jedi who decided what was good and what was bad. It wasn’t
something as obvious as good and bad. It was more of a case of we don’t
like/understand this part so it’s bad and those who use it are bad.

[The Jedi Order] started by analyzing the
Force to understand its power. They found it had a wide spectrum that was
influenced by emotions. They debated their findings. Over time, they discovered
there was much they could not understand, and they chose to believe what they
wanted to believe. They believed some mysteries were best left unsolved. They
believed that the Force itself was testing them. Like narrow-minded,
superstitious children, they created explanations for the Force. And rather than embrace the full spectrum
of the Force, the Jedi ignored the infinite shades of gray that stretched
between light and darkness. They declared the light side of the Force was good
and the dark was evil. To them, there could be no in-between, no middle ground.
It’s one thing to examine an energy field that permeates the galaxy. But to
give an energy field characteristics of good and evil? One might as well say,
‘That cloud wants to protect us from solar radiation, but that other cloud
wants to strike us dead with lightning.’ [Palpatine
to Darh Maul in Ryder Windham’s The wrath of Darth Maul]

I know this
is coming from Palpatine, but we do have enough evidence to support he’s right
about the Jedi’s relationship with the Force. They didn’t know everything but
we hardly see orthodox Jedi trying to learn more, beyond the control of the Order. Qui-Gon wanted to know more
out of his volition.

Plus, there
has always been other groups of force sensitive and even animals who use the
force as a whole. The had examples of beings using the dark side and not
becoming fully corrupted.

Between
the beginning of the Great Sith War in 4000 BBY and the end of the Dark Wars in
3951 BBY, the Jedi went from the height of their power to a mere remnant of their
existence. As war repeatedly spread across the galaxy, some Jedi came to
believe that a strong central authority was necessary. The Council,
including such members as Vrook Lamar and Atris, revised the Jedi Code in order
to consolidate their control over the Jedi Order and institute stricter
standards on the conduct of its members. Despite the Council’s actions, not
all Jedi adhered to the revised Code. Some objected to several of the new
strictures, such as those that barred the training of any Jedi hopeful over the
age of four, that prevented Jedi from having families, and that restricted the
use of Force abilities associated with the dark side. These individuals
frequently clashed with the Jedi Council, and were known as Gray Jedi to the
Jedi and the Sith. [x]

The
decision to deem everything related to the dark side “evil” was a conscious and
political one.

Branding those who use the Force differently as ‘evil’ or even just ‘bad’ is a wonderful way to justify a crusade against them. We’ve certainly seen that happen in our own history. Ethnic group A are evil savages, therefore ethnic group B has a moral obligation to kill/colonize/enslave them in order to take back the holy land/save their mortal souls.

It provides an excuse to ignore their justifiable criticisms of your own beliefs/organization. That certainly came up more than a few times in the Clone Wars. A ‘bad guy’ pointed out the ways in which the Order and the Republic were wrong, bad, or failing, but since they were the bad guy the good guys could ignore them with a clear conscience.

padawanlost:

It’s not
that simple.

The term Gray Jedi, or Gray, had two meanings. First,
it was used by Jedi and Sith to describe Force-users who walked the line
between the light and dark sides of the Force without surrendering to the dark
side, and second, it described Jedi
who distanced themselves from the Jedi High Council and operated outside the
strictures of the Jedi Code. However, those who were considered to be true
Gray Jedi met both qualifications and did not belong to any particular Force
tradition.[x]

During the
prequel, any Jedi who challenged the Council authority was considered a gray
Jedi. Qui-Gon, being the most famous example. The fact he was always clashing
wit the Council started rumors that he was a gray Jedi which kept him from
being in the Jedi Council. So, gray
jedi, is a term usually applied to beings who have Jedi training.

Any other
force-sensitive who uses the force (light, dark or both) will have their own
titles. There are organizations who focus on the dark side (the sith, Sorcerers
of Tund, Black Knights, etc). and others who focus on the light side (Aing-Tii
Monks and Baran do Sages).

As for
non-Jedi who use both…that’s tricky. The separation, as we know, between Light
and Dark was something defined by the Jedi and that is a bit problematic.

[The Jedi Order] started by analyzing the Force to understand its power.
They found it had a wide spectrum that was influenced by emotions. They debated
their findings. Over time, they discovered there was much they could not
understand, and they chose to believe what they wanted to believe. They
believed some mysteries were best left unsolved. They believed that the Force
itself was testing them. Like narrow-minded, superstitious children, they
created explanations for the Force. And
rather than embrace the full spectrum of the Force, the Jedi ignored the
infinite shades of gray that stretched between light and darkness. They
declared the light side of the Force was good and the dark was evil. To them,
there could be no in-between, no middle ground. It’s one thing to examine an
energy field that permeates the galaxy. But to give an energy field
characteristics of good and evil? One might as well say, ‘That cloud wants
to protect us from solar radiation, but that other cloud wants to strike us
dead with lightning.’[ Ryder Windham’s The wrath of Darth Maul

 The Jedi
didn’t believe you could simply use both sides and they had no real term for it. the
moment you used anything beyond what they decided was light, than you were tainted
by the dark (hence the grey). Gray Jedi were tolerated because they were still influenced by the Jedi Order.

A rogue force-sensitive using both Light and Dark would be called a problem.

Look at
Ventress: a “Jedi” (Light side) -> Dooku’s apprentice (Dark side/Sith
apprentice) -> the nightsisters (Dark Side) -> bounty-hunter (both?)

All these titles
are political. They don’t properly difine who the person is or what they stand
for.  When self-defined, they represent
your cause or organization. If not, they are used –usually by Jedi – to classify
you as friend or foe. They hardly tell the whole picture.

padawanlost:

No, Ahsoka
is not a gray Jedi.  

We’ve
discussed what it means to be a Gray Jedi in length here,
here
and here.
To sum it up, the he Grey Jedi thing is from the Old Republic when the Jedi
Order was very different from the Prequels. During those days the force-sensitive
were more free to explore the Force and their powers, and some of them who
lived outside the system (used both side of the Force) were called Grey Jedi. Once
the Sith was gone and the Order was reformed the term Gray Jedi was used to
describe Jedi who clashed with the Council. It was more of a derogatory term (“this
Jedi doesn’t obey the Masters”) than an actual title. Qui-Gon is called a gray
Jedi because he didn’t blindly followed the Council and their teachings. That’s
it.

Ahsoka is
not a gray Jedi because she is no longer a Jedi. And, by Old Republic’s standards,
she wouldn’t be one either because she doesn’t use the Dark Side. During the
Prequels no is described as a real Gray Jedi (balanced use of both Light and
Dark without any political affiliations).